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Poster: the_full_monte Date: Sep 9, 2008 5:49am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Top 5 reasons to continue to go see The Dead

"Having two drummers has always been better than one"

A highly questionable ascertation, as there a number of folks here- as well as a large number of Deadheads in general- who strongly feel the "Golden Age" of '72-74 was the band's unquestioned peak- a period when they featured just Billy on drums.

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Poster: sambonk Date: Sep 9, 2008 6:47am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Top 5 reasons to continue to go see The Dead

Here is my take on the two drummer thang:

Its is not hard to find 2 drummers that can play together,but to sound cohesive,is not easy.Its a natural fit with lots of BIG EARS(lots of listening),such as butch and Jaimoe,and prob the best Dual drummers, Chester and Phil C.With the Dead,Mickey brought a polyrythmic style that was lacking from the band(65-66).He was the odd time master.Billy is the Jazzman and for a good mearure,a great rock n roll Drummer.Together they sounded very behind the beat...very cool at times and very sloppy at times.It worked well in 67-70.
From 2-19-71,Billy was on his own.He has grown up right in front of our eyes.His chops were in topform from 72-74 and frankly,its much easier to turn corners in Jams with one drummer than 2....

A funny joke I heard a while back"why do the dead have 2 drummers?.........

Answer"case one falls asleep!"



This post was modified by sambonk on 2008-09-09 13:44:25

This post was modified by sambonk on 2008-09-09 13:47:08

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Poster: grendelschoice Date: Sep 9, 2008 8:26am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Top 5 reasons to continue to go see The Dead

I have no problem trucking on down to catch a Dead show as long as those who do are ready and willing to admit they might end up seeing a real piece of crap (yes, this was true of the "original" band on their worst days but even the worst played shows I saw were an incredibly good time).

I still want my money back from the Ratdog show I saw last year.

Then again, I thought they were great at the Furthur Festival I saw at Great Woods years ago.

I saw Phil & Friends once and was totally underwhelmed. Then again, I've DL'd some terrific P&F shows where I was amazed.

I've seen "The Other Ones" (pretty good) and "The Dead" (simply depressing).

I think it's all very personal based on how you feel/felt about your touring days (although I begrudge no newbies who never got a chance to see the real thing at least getting as close as they can).

For me, when I see any of these off-shoots, no matter how many current band members they carry, it reminds me too much of how much I miss Jerry. And no one, not Jackie Green, Warren Haynes, Derek Trucks, et al., can do anything to change that.

That's just me...go and have fun otherwise...just don;'t try to tell me "it's just as good" or "even better" (I'm looking at YOU, Dark Star Orchestra fans.) That's just spitting in my eye and telling me it's raining.

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Poster: William Tell Date: Sep 9, 2008 11:03am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Top 5 reasons to continue to go see The Dead

You know Grendel, I actually walked out on a Ratdog concert. Never did that before...

No doubt folks will say it's because I held up an unobtainable standard, etc., etc., etc., but it was just poor.

Band was okay, for a cheap imitation DEAD cover band (but my HS buddies were as good and more sincere in a way), but Bob's voice was truly the low point...

Argh.

Haven't had the balls to admit it around here, and if you call me on it in some other thread, I'll probably have to deny it or some such...

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Poster: grendelschoice Date: Sep 9, 2008 12:48pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Top 5 reasons to continue to go see The Dead

Hey, Tell...No need to qualify your statement.

I went in w/an open mind and discovered 1) Bob's voice is as currently shot to hell as Jer's was in '94-95, and 2) Ratdog's original tunes suck ass.

He played little if no Dead at all until well into the 2nd set and everything before that point sounded--seriously--like a bad '80's heavy metal hair band. If I'd closed my eyes I would have thought I'd stumbled into a Styx or Bryan Adams show, it was that horrible. Then by the time he started to "sing" China Cat I realized I'd been duped.

Just ridiculous.

When I saw Ratdog play shortly after Jer's death in '97 or '98, the band focused on playing very jazz-oriented jams, a lot of instrumental passages that were very interesting and engaging...and I'm not even talking about Dead material. But whatever they were doing last year was miles away from that, and I got the sense Weir was having some kind of musical mid-life crisis, trying to play these "hard rock" tunes that were just either bland and generic or downright embarrassing. Musical equivalent of a guy with hair plugs trying to get his "do" back from when he was a teenager.

Just calling it like I heard it.

These days if i'm going to spend my hard earned bucks on a show I'm going to make sure it's b/c the band i'm hearing has something truly musically interesting to say (why I tend to seek at jazz players like Bill Frisell, the Bad Plus, Branford etc., or bands with still-compelling original material like Tom Waits, the Cowboy Junkies, or Beck.

Going to see Phil or Bobby or even Mickey sometimes seems like trying to re-capture what's long gone, even as I realize that statement is somewhat unfair. (and no matter what anyone says, Phil simply should NOT be singing at this point).

Anyway, given all the amazing material here on the archive and elsewhere, i'm more satisfied seeking out shows or songs I may have missed when the Dead were TRULY the Dead than hoping I catch a tiny bit of that magic in an off-shoot present day show.

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Poster: bluedevil Date: Sep 9, 2008 1:13pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Top 5 reasons to continue to go see The Dead

Bill Frissel w/ Nels Cline - Sept 21st at Henry Miller Library. See you there?

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Poster: grendelschoice Date: Sep 9, 2008 1:14pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Top 5 reasons to continue to go see The Dead

where is this HM Library you speak of? I would travel to see the great BF if it aint too far....

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Poster: bluedevil Date: Sep 9, 2008 1:23pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Top 5 reasons to continue to go see The Dead

Big Sur - best to park at turnout in front of Nepenthe and walk the less than quarter mile down the road (BTW, Flea owns a place on the hill right below the same - he was at the Laurie Anderson show (her partner Lou was in attendance); site of some infamous scenes - read Alan Watt's biography for some fun stuff re same). Outside under the redwoods. Only a couple of hundred folk. Folk Yeah! puts on a lot of stuff there. Philip Glass just did a fundraiser a few weeks back. Pegi Young will do benefit for fire brigade in a few weeks (Ben Keith and Spooner Oldham were in her band last time around and Neil sat in and played guitar and harmonica but did not sing; might be different this time around.) It's Big Sur - how bad can it be?
http://www.henrymiller.org/

Nels Cline:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hXGYu0hrUwU

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Poster: wolfmanjack Date: Sep 10, 2008 12:17am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Top 5 reasons to continue to go see The Dead

That Henry Miller Library and its events looks way cool. I had no idea.

I have family roots from that area.

Henry Rollins, awesome - too much.

Next time I'm in that area I'll be sure to stop by and check it out.

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Poster: SomeDarkHollow Date: Sep 9, 2008 1:09pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Top 5 reasons to continue to go see The Dead

Can't argue with that. As for my personal feelings on the matter, if this current incarnation came through my town, I'd probably just go to hopefully catch up with some friends and just enjoy the scene in general. Going for the music itself would be far down my list of priorities. At this point in my life, I'm happy with just being entertained. I try not to go into things with any preconceived notions, either good or bad, and more often than not I usually manage to have a good time. If someone who did see the original goes into these things expecting to be hit the same way by the music is most assuradely going to be dissapointed. Whether or not someone can still sing or has chops that do the music justice doesn't make or break it for me these days. One thing that would give me pause about putting money down to see such a show, however, regards the attendees. It seems that in many of the concerts I've been too lately, I'm finding myself more and more annoyed by the negative elements of what seem to be a growing majority of the crowd; like excessive drinking and the associated vomiting, endless screaming and complete disrespect for those in the immediate area. Perhaps this wouldn't be such an issue at one of these shows, but it is one hell of a risk for what is sure to be a rather steep ticket price. I'd be very afraid that such a tour would attract a huge number of much younger kids who attend simply because of the band's "drug mystique" and proceed to ingest WAY too much psychedellics and, if I'm lucky, vomit on my shoes. Decisions, decisions.

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Poster: sambonk Date: Sep 9, 2008 1:41pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Top 5 reasons to continue to go see The Dead

DarkHollow
You my friend....Get it!!!Thanks for taking the words right out of my mouth(no pun intended!)

This post was modified by sambonk on 2008-09-09 20:41:42

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Poster: bluedevil Date: Sep 9, 2008 1:45pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Top 5 reasons to continue to go see The Dead

G-L-O-R-IIIIIIIIIIIII - ralphhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

Sorry dude.

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Poster: SomeDarkHollow Date: Sep 9, 2008 1:46pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Top 5 reasons to continue to go see The Dead

I keep forgetting to send you a bill for that. Well, I guess I picked a good show NOT to wear sandals to.

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Poster: William Tell Date: Sep 9, 2008 3:18pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Sorry, Bob...

Hey GC & SDH...thanks for the kind words of support. I've been living with extreme GUILT for two years since that event (when I walked out).

Cool.

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Poster: grendelschoice Date: Sep 9, 2008 4:02pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Sorry, Bob...

BlueDevil...Enjoy the show! I'm East coast-located so it's not in the cards.

SDH...couldn't agree more. Even when I was young and more prone to excess I still had an awareness of surroundings and respect enough for those there not to act like a complete jackass. I find that's not the case as much these days. (Insert old fogie joke here).

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Poster: Bob Gnarley Date: Sep 9, 2008 5:31pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Sorry, Bob...

I was never a complete jackass.Some parts are missing.

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Poster: bluedevil Date: Sep 9, 2008 8:37am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Top 5 reasons to continue to go see The Dead

amen. For me, it's all about my ear wanting to hear Jer. I certainly do NOT begrudge anyone from playing those songs or going to see whatever ensemble plays them, but if ain't Jer on Stella Blue, Wharf Rat, or plenty of other tunes, I just ain't gonna learn what I don't want to know. But I'll go when they play the Warfield (matter of when, not if), but I know it won't be what it was.

By the way, Ryan Adams and the Cardinals have some nice new tunes they are breaking out at shows this past week. If someone wants to catch a BAND that is evolving into a monster, it's not a bad place to start. Phil knows.

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Poster: lobster12 Date: Sep 9, 2008 9:14am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Top 5 reasons to continue to go see The Dead

I don't even have a problem with them playing jer tunes. I just don't want Phil or Bob singing them. I think they were on to something when at certain shows they just did instrumentals of jer songs to mix it up. Nice tribute and musically well done. He's gone and Stella come to mind

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Poster: pequastogy Date: Sep 9, 2008 8:46am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Top 5 reasons to continue to go see The Dead

Hello Friend,

I agree the different incarnations of the band can be up and down, depending on the night. I don't agree that The Dead 04 tour was depressing. I saw a real hot show on Jerry's birthday 8-1-04 at Saratoga. Later that summer, I saw a clunker at Jones Beach. I go to see the magic which, in my opinion, still comes out shines from time to time.

Take care.